I hope that by sharing this information I can save someone else from making the same mistakes that I did. So that being said as I told you in my previous post we had all kinds of trouble finding another rental this time even though we paid our rent on time for the last year and a half and improved our credit. We looked at all kinds of properties and found that rentals were in high demand and there were more renters than there were properties giving the home owners the upper hand and pretty much removing any negotiating power you might have had previously.
There were literally 10 to 20 people applying for every property we applied to and it would take 10 days or more on each one for an answer as well as $80 to $100 application fee on each one. Every application we made was denied and we were told that someone else looked better than us on paper or made more money than we did. I thought that you had to show 3 times the rent but in each case we showed 5 or 6 times the rent and still didnt get accepted. I later learned that because our realtor was independent and not the person with the listing that they didnt want to pay her a commission on their listing so we may have been overlooked purely because of that.
My advice to avoid that headache would be to find a realty company that has lots of listings you are interested in and contact them. That way there will be only one approval process, one application fee, and more incentive for them to get you into that property when you come in as their client. Look for a property management company that is reputable and been around for awhile as well as check them out with the BBB for any negatives and unresolved issues.
Official Notice to Vacate
The official notice to vacate our rental in foreclosure turned short sale came in the form of an email dated 6-1 from Tony Soprano that the deal was accepted and now they are in the closing process and that his email would serve as official notice to vacate property by 6-30 (not actually 30 days). Just so you understand email cannot serve as official notice and it will not hold up in court. Notice must be served and documented usually by certified mail. You could easily say you never got the email.
I cut off all communication with him at that point having my husband handle him because it just was not worth having a heart attack over and my husband is a much calmer person than I am.
Even though the email was not official notice we decided to take it seriously and start looking because we didnt know if official notice was in the mail or what he had up his sleeve. Finding a place was difficult this time more so than the last time even though it had been a year and a half since our foreclosure and our credit wasnt so bad at all but that foreclosure will kill you and it will follow you and taint your renting reputation. Since we were having so much trouble finding a place I asked the new owner that had not really become an owner yet because he hadnt yet closed but I asked if we really had to be out by 6-30 knowing that we really did not legally. The new owner wouldnt look me in the eye when he lied to me and said yes you have to be out 6-30 thats not me that comes from the bank. This just isnt true. In fact if it did come from the bank there would have been notice from the bank. Just because he lied I was insulted and pissed off and felt all kinds of emotions about it. I wanted to prove to them a point by not leaving and making them take the legal route. I didnt care if it hurt them somehow by a month but my husband was completely against it and suggested we just get out and not deal with the drama any longer.
I cut off all communication with him at that point having my husband handle him because it just was not worth having a heart attack over and my husband is a much calmer person than I am.
Even though the email was not official notice we decided to take it seriously and start looking because we didnt know if official notice was in the mail or what he had up his sleeve. Finding a place was difficult this time more so than the last time even though it had been a year and a half since our foreclosure and our credit wasnt so bad at all but that foreclosure will kill you and it will follow you and taint your renting reputation. Since we were having so much trouble finding a place I asked the new owner that had not really become an owner yet because he hadnt yet closed but I asked if we really had to be out by 6-30 knowing that we really did not legally. The new owner wouldnt look me in the eye when he lied to me and said yes you have to be out 6-30 thats not me that comes from the bank. This just isnt true. In fact if it did come from the bank there would have been notice from the bank. Just because he lied I was insulted and pissed off and felt all kinds of emotions about it. I wanted to prove to them a point by not leaving and making them take the legal route. I didnt care if it hurt them somehow by a month but my husband was completely against it and suggested we just get out and not deal with the drama any longer.
How to Handle a Foreclosure on Your Rental House
The moment I got the notice in the mail that the house I was currently renting was now in foreclosure I looked to family and the internet for advice. I found there wasnt a whole lot of help on the internet about how to deal with something like this which really surprises me especially with the state our nation is in in the year 2012. There are literally 5 new foreclosures in my neighborhood every month and speaking to my mailman I find out there are so many more than just what I see. So why isnt there more helpful information out there? My family suggested I stop the check that I had just sent so I did. I did that because I too thought maybe I should stop the check and find out what my rights are. I think that would be a pretty natural thought for anyone in our position.
Tony the LL aka Tony Soprano contacted us the very next day after we put that stop on the rent check. He was insane and threatening. I tried to be as calm as possible and explained to him that I didnt know how to react and that I was advised to put a stop on it but after reading the landlord tenant act for Arizona which you can find here Arizona Landlord tenant act I decided to send him out another check right away. In Arizona the law does not favor the tenant and if you do not pay your rent on the 1st the LL has the right to evict you within 5 days. I didnt want that headache. After all that drama went down fighting, screaming, accusing, cussing, etc with the LL he came back to us and made us a deal. It was that check stop that made him go into a panic and start thinking and the deal was that he reduced our $1400 a month rent to $900 a month. Not sure what his thinking was other than he probably didnt want to lose his cash cow that he had become accustomed to. We took the deal but things just got worse. There were bad feelings between both of us and repairs not being made more arguing etc. Seriously one of the most horrible situations I have ever been in. For some reason he dropped the rent again and most likely because I manipulated and lied to him about not having income etc. I basically did a little song and dance to get out of paying this guy anything because I didnt trust this fool. He had over $3000 deposit money that was all to come back to me and I knew that if hes in foreclosure and he was dodging all his bills, the pool guy, his mortgage etc that there was no way he was going to pay me. When I confronted him with that he bragged and boasted about how much money he had and how he could buy me over 10 times. Ya right then why dont you save your house money bags?? Well all of that led to another reduction and now hes offering to reduce it to $700 a month. I of course took that deal too otherwise I would have been on the street in 5 days like he kept threatening.
I sought out the advice of free legal help with my City Hall in Phoenix and found out that if I didnt pay that rent I had no rights. The law is really favoring the LL here in AZ and they dont care that hes in foreclosure and not paying his mortgage and just pocketing our money or that he isnt making repairs. He still legally owns that house therefore you pay or you are out. The only thing I found in my favor was that if he did not pay me back my deposit after 14 working days of vacating property that I then had the right to file suit against him and could be awarded 3X the amount he is holding.
Originally when I first learned of the foreclosure and had a conversation with him about it I asked why he didnt chose to do a short sale. He was adamant that he would not do that and that bankruptcy was also not an option. That didnt make much sense to me and I tried to point out the logic. I just wasted my breath. I think this guy was ultimately insulted by my being an intelligent strong woman. I dont think he had ever had a person like me stand up to him and his pride was so damaged that he just became an unreasonable mad man.
We started getting all kinds of notices in the mail, phone calls to our home number, people showing up at the door all trying to make a buck off of our misfortune. Finally Greg Thirkhill a realtor contacted us telling us that B of A has approved him for a short sale. I told Greg I tried to explain that to Tony Soprano but he was unwilling to budge. Greg tried his best to act like he was my friend working in my best interest and wanted me to contact Mr. Soprano and ask him if he was willing to Short Sale. I never contacted Tony because I had already tried and obviously the guy was too stupid to make the better choice. Greg went behind my back which is fine I would have done same thing and he convinced this complete jerk to short sale.
The short sale basically extended our time there at a reduced rent which was nice for saving money but lots of headaches really not worth the reduction. We were supposed to be out originally on Nov 28th but the short sale extended that to end of June. The house went up for sale end of march and people came traipsing through our house. Luckily the traipsing only lasted one day because there was an immediate offer that was accepted. The short sale process then took at least a month for that offer to be approved by the bank and at that time Greg Thirkhill contacted us and said be prepared to get out by end of May. I thought ya right. No way, nothing in writing, no formal notice, and closings dont always go that smoothly so we decided to wait until we got official notice.
Tony the LL aka Tony Soprano contacted us the very next day after we put that stop on the rent check. He was insane and threatening. I tried to be as calm as possible and explained to him that I didnt know how to react and that I was advised to put a stop on it but after reading the landlord tenant act for Arizona which you can find here Arizona Landlord tenant act I decided to send him out another check right away. In Arizona the law does not favor the tenant and if you do not pay your rent on the 1st the LL has the right to evict you within 5 days. I didnt want that headache. After all that drama went down fighting, screaming, accusing, cussing, etc with the LL he came back to us and made us a deal. It was that check stop that made him go into a panic and start thinking and the deal was that he reduced our $1400 a month rent to $900 a month. Not sure what his thinking was other than he probably didnt want to lose his cash cow that he had become accustomed to. We took the deal but things just got worse. There were bad feelings between both of us and repairs not being made more arguing etc. Seriously one of the most horrible situations I have ever been in. For some reason he dropped the rent again and most likely because I manipulated and lied to him about not having income etc. I basically did a little song and dance to get out of paying this guy anything because I didnt trust this fool. He had over $3000 deposit money that was all to come back to me and I knew that if hes in foreclosure and he was dodging all his bills, the pool guy, his mortgage etc that there was no way he was going to pay me. When I confronted him with that he bragged and boasted about how much money he had and how he could buy me over 10 times. Ya right then why dont you save your house money bags?? Well all of that led to another reduction and now hes offering to reduce it to $700 a month. I of course took that deal too otherwise I would have been on the street in 5 days like he kept threatening.
I sought out the advice of free legal help with my City Hall in Phoenix and found out that if I didnt pay that rent I had no rights. The law is really favoring the LL here in AZ and they dont care that hes in foreclosure and not paying his mortgage and just pocketing our money or that he isnt making repairs. He still legally owns that house therefore you pay or you are out. The only thing I found in my favor was that if he did not pay me back my deposit after 14 working days of vacating property that I then had the right to file suit against him and could be awarded 3X the amount he is holding.
Originally when I first learned of the foreclosure and had a conversation with him about it I asked why he didnt chose to do a short sale. He was adamant that he would not do that and that bankruptcy was also not an option. That didnt make much sense to me and I tried to point out the logic. I just wasted my breath. I think this guy was ultimately insulted by my being an intelligent strong woman. I dont think he had ever had a person like me stand up to him and his pride was so damaged that he just became an unreasonable mad man.
We started getting all kinds of notices in the mail, phone calls to our home number, people showing up at the door all trying to make a buck off of our misfortune. Finally Greg Thirkhill a realtor contacted us telling us that B of A has approved him for a short sale. I told Greg I tried to explain that to Tony Soprano but he was unwilling to budge. Greg tried his best to act like he was my friend working in my best interest and wanted me to contact Mr. Soprano and ask him if he was willing to Short Sale. I never contacted Tony because I had already tried and obviously the guy was too stupid to make the better choice. Greg went behind my back which is fine I would have done same thing and he convinced this complete jerk to short sale.
The short sale basically extended our time there at a reduced rent which was nice for saving money but lots of headaches really not worth the reduction. We were supposed to be out originally on Nov 28th but the short sale extended that to end of June. The house went up for sale end of march and people came traipsing through our house. Luckily the traipsing only lasted one day because there was an immediate offer that was accepted. The short sale process then took at least a month for that offer to be approved by the bank and at that time Greg Thirkhill contacted us and said be prepared to get out by end of May. I thought ya right. No way, nothing in writing, no formal notice, and closings dont always go that smoothly so we decided to wait until we got official notice.
Foreclosure to Foreclosure a Rental Nightmare
Ironically we found a house for rent in a very nice neighborhood that was $200 less per month than we had been paying for our own home that was unnecessarily taken from us in a foreclosure. Being a victim of foreclosure makes it much more difficult to rent and having only 9 days to find a place was incredibly stressful and caused us to make choices we wouldnt have otherwise. What I mean by this is that we had wanted to save some money and find a place for around $1000 a month but those houses werent renting to people with a foreclosure.
Prior to moving in we noticed a huge eyesore of a leak in the ceiling that was very noticeable when you walked in the front door. We were working with Ahwatukee Realty who assured us that it would be taken care of without a problem. When we signed the papers we mentioned the leak again and we were assured again it wasnt a problem. Now that it is 1 year and a half later I know that they never had any intention of fixing that leak nor did the landlord. They will tell you everything you want to hear but unless it is in writing they are just giving you the business. Also we never did a walk thru with this house and I remember way back before I bought my first house when I was a renter that we did a walk thru and pointed out any damages etc so that we would not ultimately be charged for it. Ahwatukee Realty and Tony (imagine Tony Soprano) our landlord never did anything like that.
Slowly things went wrong with the house a leak under the sink, a garbage disposal that had holes in it leaking, the dishwasher stopped working, the garage door stopped opening, etc so we started asking for repairs. Immediately the landlord otherwise known as Tony Soprano (which he hates to be called by the way) started dodging our requests. He would act weird each time we contacted him about a repair. He seemed very defensive when we called him about the broken garage spring that would cost him $250 to fix. He treated each request as if it were a lie and required us to prove it to him before he would grant repairs. That is not good when you have a leaking sink making mold like this and it takes Tony Soprano 4 months to get it together and grant the repair but not before he showed up at our house unannounced NO warning (which is not technically legal. The law states they have to give 48 hours notice) on a Saturday morning at 8 am asking to come in to check out the leak.
All of this was a huge warning sign to me that something was seriously wrong with this guy. I started looking at public records to find out how much he paid for the house and to see if I could find out whether or not he was in foreclosure because things were not adding up and his reluctance to make repairs was a huge red flag. When things started to go wrong with the pool we got to know the pool guy a bit better and found out that Tony the LL was 4 months behind in payments to him. Another red flag! Guess what???? Shortly after our discovery that the pool guy wasnt getting paid we got a foreclosure notice in the mail! Yes thats right we just lost our home to foreclosure and then we moved into another house that was in foreclosure.
Slowly things went wrong with the house a leak under the sink, a garbage disposal that had holes in it leaking, the dishwasher stopped working, the garage door stopped opening, etc so we started asking for repairs. Immediately the landlord otherwise known as Tony Soprano (which he hates to be called by the way) started dodging our requests. He would act weird each time we contacted him about a repair. He seemed very defensive when we called him about the broken garage spring that would cost him $250 to fix. He treated each request as if it were a lie and required us to prove it to him before he would grant repairs. That is not good when you have a leaking sink making mold like this and it takes Tony Soprano 4 months to get it together and grant the repair but not before he showed up at our house unannounced NO warning (which is not technically legal. The law states they have to give 48 hours notice) on a Saturday morning at 8 am asking to come in to check out the leak.
All of this was a huge warning sign to me that something was seriously wrong with this guy. I started looking at public records to find out how much he paid for the house and to see if I could find out whether or not he was in foreclosure because things were not adding up and his reluctance to make repairs was a huge red flag. When things started to go wrong with the pool we got to know the pool guy a bit better and found out that Tony the LL was 4 months behind in payments to him. Another red flag! Guess what???? Shortly after our discovery that the pool guy wasnt getting paid we got a foreclosure notice in the mail! Yes thats right we just lost our home to foreclosure and then we moved into another house that was in foreclosure.
9 Days to Get Out the Beginning of My Foreclosure Nightmare
This blog isn't going to be all fluffy and cute with lots of pictures. It's just going to be the truth about what happened to me and my family, how we lost our house unnecessarily to foreclosure, and what we learned in the process.
I was one of the lucky ones in 2009 that was still gainfully employed and able to pay my bills. That was until they let me go in April of that year. I didn't see that coming. I was just assured my position with the company was safe less than a week before they called me into the conference room to do the dirty deed.
The next day I started thinking about what had to be done. It was scary to think about making a big house payment of $1600 a month plus a second rounding it to a nice $1800 a month when I was jobless and less than a couple weeks til the first of May with another house payment due. I knew that my house value had dropped almost 100k recently and that Obama had some new law in effect that would help people in my same situation. So I called my mortgage company informing them of my trouble. Their response was sorry there is nothing we can do, you are not late on your payments. Then they told me that we would have to be late several months before they could step in and offer any type of assistance. They basically advised me to quit making my mortgage payment and to inquire about a modification which is exactly what we made the mistake of doing.
We bought our house at the height of the real estate market in 2005. At the time our neighborhood was going for close to 300k which was about double what the same neighborhood went for only a couple years before. We had found a house that needed quite a bit of work and still paid too much for it at 215k. We were happy though and loved our house and had every intention of fixing the house the way we liked it and living there for the rest of our lives or at least keeping it and possibly renting it out or just having as an investment property if we decided to move one day.
It didn't take long for the mortgage company to start the harassing phone calls and each time we let them know what was going on and that we weren't paying because you basically told us not to. Each representative seemed to understand as if it was a common practice. A few months later we got to the modification process. This is where they ask you to provide all your financial documentation and a hardship letter or reason for the non pay so they can determine your ability to pay. We provided all information requested each and every time same day via fax and then sent mail through the USPS for backup. We followed up each time to make sure all documents were received so that there were no lost paper types of excuses. I have had lots of experience dealing with corporate entities where the employees seem to take the position of its not my job. I had in fact left one of those corporate jobs for the one that I eventually lost April of 09 so I know better than to trust anyone and that I have to keep on top of them.
The mortgage company re requested all the same paperwork at least 10 times. Our mortgage was bought and sold at least 4 times during our modification process. There were so many companies that took over we forgot who we had the mortgage with in the first place. The last company to come along and request all the same paperwork the last and final time was IBM LBPS (Seterus). I later learned they were a loan servicer or a 3rd party company that did the collections etc. Arizona and other hard hit states have so many houses in foreclosure then and now that the mortgage companies had to enlist help just to push around all that paperwork. Lots of new companies specializing in losing your paperwork started to spring up. Unfortunately for us LBPS was one of them. There was a foreclosure date that was set on our house previously but the modification process had put that on hold. Unfortunately the hold was not a permanent one and nobody could tell us when and if it would be lifted however they did assure me in early October of 2010 that nobody would be taking our house especially since we were cooperating and providing everything asked of us. I remember being on the phone with one of the lovely people from LBPS that specializes in losing your paperwork asking how can I be assured? How do I know you wont come and foreclose etc? How can I trust you? The guy kept assuring me don't worry we are working with you it wont happen.
I dont think it was even 2 weeks after that last conversation with the scum at LBPS that a strange woman aka Gina Donnelly of Donnelly Arizona Homes
shows up at my front door posting a humiliating foreclosure sign to the front of my house. When I first opened the door she was peering past me looking into the house, her behavior was odd to me. I later understood what had happened. She was looking past me at the features of the house and became excited when she saw the fireplace and the french doors we added to the kitchen. I could see the look of excitement on her face as she was calculating the sale in her mind. She seemed to delight in the news that she brought me, telling me that I had 9 days to get out. I was of course in complete and utter shock. This was not something I could easily process. I had to ask her over and over what the hell she was talking about and how in the world is this even possible when I am in the middle of a modification and had only sent in new paperwork that was just requested 10 days prior. She didnt know, she didnt care but, she seemed to put on an act as if she was concerned and asked me what papers I was talking about as if there was someway she could help me but, it was actually that she completely doubted me I later figured out when she told me that most people KNOW this is coming and they are full of it when they say they have completed all the paperwork etc. I went and grabbed all the notarized papers, showed them to her and she proceeded to act as if she was completely surprised, this situation was unjust, and of course she was sorry and there was nothing she could do.
As soon as Gina left I got on the phone with LBPS and asked what happened. They said that they no longer had my file and they couldnt tell me what happened but, it was no longer in their hands and there was nothing they could do. I spent 5 hours that day in tortured agony fighting tears and people to keep my house but, time was ticking and I still had 9 days to get out. My husband said why fight? What are we fighting for? There were still many upgrades that we needed to do to make this home what we wanted it to be so he convinced me to give up the fight and lets just start over.
Gina basically threatened me the night she taped up the ugly notice and told me I had better not remove any fixtures, anything on the walls like mirrors, window treatments, etc. I had just spent a small fortune painting the inside, replacing all the ceiling fans with custom fans that I had been dreaming of for years, replacing all the window treatments, put all new fixtures and mirrors in the bathrooms etc so that was a bit disturbing to me. I questioned how that was possible but she threw out a couple more threats and she convinced my husband we better not touch what was already there.
I just wanted to bring up those threats because my husband was adamant that we would not touch those things as instructed. Gina's cleaning people stole most of those things and when I mentioned that to her that I couldn't believe all the mirrors were gone etc she acted shocked and thought I took them. I said why would I do that when you told me not to and threatened me?? Then the realization that her cleaning people stole everything came over her and she started to take pictures of everything in the house. She said she would check them against the pictures from the day we left and if anything was missing she was going to take care of it. Big effing deal is all I can say about that. As I type this I feel an extreme hate come over me. Her body language told me that I should have taken those things she told me not to take. She gave us a lousy 2k because we left the house intact. Its a program called cash for keys put in place to keep people from becoming pissed and vandalizing the property.
I have no idea if what Gina Donnelly did was legal. I am always asked that question. I never saw any paperwork other than the nasty letter she taped to my front window. I have never suffered the loss of a home so I didn't know what the proper protocol was. When you have 9 days to pack up a 3 bedroom house and find another place to live you arent thinking very clearly.
It didn't take them long to sell our house for less than half of what we bought it for. It sold for 84k and the mortgage payment ended up being something like 400 bucks, I would have gladly paid that twice, even 3 times to keep my home.
****Update to this post May 29th 2013 After filing a complaint with the Independent Foreclosure Review/National Mortgage Settlement.....I was actually included in a class action lawsuit for mortgage fraud and I WON. I only received $300 for their illegal and fraudulent actions that caused my family to be kicked to the curb which is an incredible insult but just the fact that I was included in that WIN helps to make me feel vindicated somewhat.
****Update to this post May 29th 2013 After filing a complaint with the Independent Foreclosure Review/National Mortgage Settlement.....I was actually included in a class action lawsuit for mortgage fraud and I WON. I only received $300 for their illegal and fraudulent actions that caused my family to be kicked to the curb which is an incredible insult but just the fact that I was included in that WIN helps to make me feel vindicated somewhat.
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